Decision-Making and How to Say NO

Decision-Making and How to Say NO

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When do you stand firm, and when do you let go? In Episode 20 of the C-Suite Chicks Podcast, Ashlie Marshall and Whitney Ramirez take listeners on a heartfelt and insightful journey through the world of difficult decision-making, both in business and in life. Whether its deciding which clients align with their values, reimagining their leadership style, or figuring out when to invest in growth, they show us that the art of decision-making is messy but necessary.

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The episode opens on a festive note, with the hosts sharing their favorite holiday traditions—from early Christmas music playlists to a family ritual of letting kids pick a new ornament every year. Their holiday cheer quickly transitions to serious discussions about leadership and business challenges, setting the stage for a deep dive into decisions that have defined their roles as leaders.

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Ashlie and Whitney reflect on how their approach to client relationships has evolved over time. In the early days of their business, they took on anyone willing to work with them. Today, they’ve embraced the importance of boundaries, strategically parting ways with clients who don’t align with their culture or values. Ashlie admits how difficult it was to fire their first client but shares how it became easier as they learned the financial and cultural benefits of standing their ground. Whitney adds that hiring clients thoughtfully is equally critical—not every paying customer is the right fit for a growing team.

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The hosts explore another layer of decision-making: operational and financial choices. Whitney reflects on a significant decision from the past year—investing in a $250,000 piece of equipment for their shop. While the move carried financial risk, it aligned with their goals for long-term growth. Ashlie, however, recalls a different challenge—her decision to stop the company from relying on credit. She shares how daunting it was to step into her leadership role and make such a bold call, but she credits the move with helping stabilize the company’s finances.

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Beyond business, Ashlie and Whitney get personal. Whitney opens up about a life-changing decision: leaving her marriage. She reveals how the decision-making framework she developed in her professional life helped guide her through the process. Ashlie, in turn, shares how leadership has changed her approach to parenting, helping her have more thoughtful conversations with her kids and navigate tough family situations.

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Throughout the episode, Ashlie and Whitney return to the central theme of staying true to your values. For them, it’s not just about making decisions—it’s about creating a framework that guides both business and personal growth. They emphasize the importance of investing in their team, aligning operational decisions with company culture, and recognizing when it’s time to make the tough call for the greater good.

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The episode wraps with a compelling teaser: the consequences of not making decisions at all. Ashlie and Whitney suggest that while it can be tempting to avoid risk, complacency often has its own set of challenges. They leave listeners with a thought-provoking message: great leadership isn’t about avoiding mistakes—it’s about making choices, owning them, and learning along the way.

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Whether you’re an entrepreneur, team leader, or someone at a personal crossroads, Episode 20 of the C-Suite Chicks Podcast offers a candid, relatable, and empowering take on the decisions that shape our lives. Don’t miss this heartfelt conversation that will leave you inspired to tackle your own big decisions with courage and clarity.

Ashlie Marshall (00:00):

I think learning through the course of time, your battles that you pick, right? And at first when you're learning the ropes, at least for me, when I was still trying to figure out, I knew I was coming into a mess. I didn't know how messy it was going to be. I really didn't know exactly what I was doing or how I was going to do it. But the more I kind of just dove head first, the more I realized I had to dig my feet in on certain battles and made sure that I won them because in terms of the way we were choosing to move forward, because if I didn't, there wasn't going to be much of a company left at that point. Have you started listening to Christmas music yet? Yes, last month. So have I. My kids ate it and I'm so excited.

Whitney Ramirez (00:50):

Yeah, I feel like I need to find new Christmas music. I just listen to the same playlist over and over and over. What do you use

Ashlie Marshall (00:59):

To listen to music?

Whitney Ramirez (01:00):

Apple Music

Ashlie Marshall (01:02):

Use Spotify and I have found an awesome one. I even found one, I like to work to jazz music playing in the background, and so I found a Christmas jazz. Oh, that's good.

Whitney Ramirez (01:15):

Sometimes I'll put the on YouTube on my tv and it's just like Christmas fireplace and it'll be playing relaxing Christmas music. It's nice.

Ashlie Marshall (01:25):

That's the best. That's the best we should find out from everybody. When does everybody decorate for Christmas? November 1st. Yeah,

Whitney Ramirez (01:36):

I do. I don't fall decorations that much. No. I'll put fall decorations up in September, and so September and October, pumpkins are out, but November seems like winter to me.

Ashlie Marshall (01:54):

Yeah. See, we put all of our pumpkin stuff out right after school starts, so pumpkins come out end of August, beginning of September.

Whitney Ramirez (02:03):

It's

Ashlie Marshall (02:03):

Just hot. I usually take some of the Thanksgiving, the fall stuff away and put out Halloween with it. So there's some normal pumpkins and some Halloween, and then the Halloween gets put away and all the pumpkin stuff comes back until Thanksgiving. And then when Thanksgiving hits, we put up the tree. That's how we do it. Yeah,

Whitney Ramirez (02:26):

Little routine going. I'm trying to figure out what Christmas traditions I want to do and get everything

Ashlie Marshall (02:35):

Figured out. We have one that we've done actually since Harley was born, and when Harley was born, it was just by accident. We were in Hobby Lobby and they have all the Christmas ornaments and I let them each pick one, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then we put 'em on the tree, and then when we were putting the tree away, Joanne and I were like, oh, we should let them pick ornaments every year and then we'll write the year on it on the ornament. So that's what we do every year. We go and we let them pick a Christmas ornament and then we write the year on it. So that's like one of our Christmas traditions that we kind of just did on our own. Yeah, that's cute. It was fun. We got a big topic to talk about today. I don't know, we've got to dice this up. I think it's a lot of information today. Difficult decisions. Hi. I feel like every decision, it's a difficult one since we got into our roles

Whitney Ramirez (03:43):

And I think they just, I don't know. As time goes on, you find yourself making more difficult decisions than easy decisions, but I think that's a good thing. If you're making a harder decision, you're going to think about it through a little bit more than you would like an easier decision. It's easy to make easy

Ashlie Marshall (04:05):

Decisions. So specify what would be a hard decision and what would be an easy decision?

Whitney Ramirez (04:11):

I think an easy decision is what do I want to eat for lunch today? And hard decision is, I don't know. I see easy decisions as something that is low risk, and then difficult decisions are something that's normally high risk and could have a greater impact than if I eat McDonald's day for lunch, I'm not going to gain 10 pounds from that. But if I fire someone today, that's a way bigger decision that could actually make an impact.

Ashlie Marshall (04:59):

But if someone that you're firing, just go with it here. If someone that you're firing is harming the business or others in their vicinity or in some way that person's presence or what they're producing is not productive, is that really a difficult decision to make?

Whitney Ramirez (05:20):

That's true.

Ashlie Marshall (05:21):

So I feel like that's where we get into

Whitney Ramirez (05:24):

That big, it's on a spectrum.

Ashlie Marshall (05:26):

We get into that big area. I need to get a rental. I'm sorry.

Whitney Ramirez (05:30):

I also was thinking what's a big decision is changing your hair color or getting bangs, and that will impact you because your hair doesn't grow that fast. And see, I see that differently. I know.

Ashlie Marshall (05:46):

Go purple, it'll grow. But when I had red hair, that was the worst time of my life, which would've just been like, it's fine. It'll grow out. But that's also a perception though. The way that affected you is different than how it affects me.

Whitney Ramirez (06:03):

Oh

Ashlie Marshall (06:03):

Yeah. Okay. Well, obviously labeling a decision as difficult is based on lots of different factors, and it depends on the person making the decision. But in our roles for the last few years, we have had to make a range of decisions that affected either our client relationship and operational efficiency, leadership for ourselves and for others, and financial decisions, which are difficult for me sometimes. And they're heavier. So because those are all really big, big pieces, we're going to do 'em in chunks. So I feel like the first type of decisions that we deal with almost on a daily basis are client relation decisions. And over the years when the company started, we had a eclectic group of clients. I guess you could label it that way. And when you're a startup, what type of client you want, but you really just need to get the bills paid. So you have all types of clients, and as your company grows, you start to discover what type of clients actually vibe well with the service that you're trying to provide.

(07:37):

And Over the course of that journey, we have had to professionally fire clients. And at first it was really difficult, I think, but it got a lot easier.

Whitney Ramirez (07:52):

Yeah, when you start, I think sometimes when you're in the position you're in, you forget that you have the power to make decisions that can cause either a positive or a negative or a neutral impact. But yeah, sometimes you forget that and then you have to know that you do have the power to make decisions that can be impactful.

Ashlie Marshall (08:21):

Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, the shift when the decision was really difficult, it was more so when we were the ones facing the adversity or when we were the ones in the position for the borderline abusive treatment that we were receiving.

(08:49):

And we definitely were much more timid to say, Hey, this isn't working. I'm providing all of the services that you are paying for, and I'm trying desperately to explain that, but I'm being met with a force that we aren't able to work together. This is not a very healthy communicative relationship, so we just need to part ways. But I think you and I were much more timid to do it then because we didn't really know the impact of that because we didn't really know the backside of the business in terms of all the finances and everything that went along with it. So the decision was much more difficult then. And now we know all of those things and we also know what we will and will not subject our team to in terms of treatment and environment and culture. And so I think the decision, while it still is a difficult decision, it's easier to make it when we are making it to create an environment for others, that's the impact that we're making, the choice to keep them on as a client just because we want to make sure that our revenue is hitting a certain threshold is not just, it's not worth jeopardizing a hostile environment.

(10:15):

We've also had to make a lot of other client related types of decisions in terms of level of service. We've also decided

Whitney Ramirez (10:25):

Even hiring clients, it's not even that it's a hard decision to hire a client, but it is like you have to be thoughtful whenever you are bringing people in because those people will be working with their team and will they be a good client and will they help the team learn? Or is this person that I'm hiring coming into our service with unreal expectations and am I setting the team up for success by bringing this client on or not? So it's like not necessarily is it a difficult decision, but I think at this level, all decisions that are made do require deep thought and using everything we've learned to make good decisions moving forward.

Ashlie Marshall (11:32):

Yeah, I think, I'm not going to use the phrase that picky, right? Because

(11:42):

Definitely taken on any client who wants to utilize our services, we have been able to, we've gotten a lot better at recognizing red flags and trying to address them professionally prior to service agreements being signed. And I think that that has tremendously helped us in terms of creating a healthy culture. Does that mean that when we speak to someone and we know they're going to be a difficult individual, do we not sign them as a client? Absolutely not. We'll still sign them if we think that they have a good understanding and a great view of what their expectations should be given they utilize our service and how we're going to provide those, and what's a good timeframe As long as we're able to functionally see that they can hear what we're saying and they're going to be able to communicate with us even though they communicate abrasively, okay, we can deal with that.

(12:39):

We don't turn away difficult people, but if we understand that what we're communicating isn't hitting home now, it's really not going to hit home in six months or a year. And then they'll be frustrated and will be frustrated. And it's been difficult in the past, but like you said, we have taken what we've learned from different situations and we've been able to recognize it sooner and address it sooner and have the right type of conversation to prevent those frustrations and make sure that we're being as transparent with our communication as possible. Which kind of leads me into the other types of decisions that we make as operational decisions. We do have a COO who we entrust her with everything to do with operations for the agency, but before she was in that role, we were kind of doing all that and decisions we were making on the client side were dictating what we were doing operationally. And I think what becomes difficult is, for me anyway, understanding how to marry those two, how to base decisions off of one or the other. And I think the key for me at least, has been our values. Our values have always been customer centric. We are client focused, customer focused. Our goal, our end goal is for the customer experience to be the best it possibly can be, which has driven our operational decisions in the past.

(14:21):

And I think you can tell me what you think, but over the years we have learned to co-mingle them instead of the customer experience is the only thing driving our operations. We're also trying to make sure that our team operationally has good processes and that it makes sense for the way that they need to do their job. And it's not only what the result is for the customer, we have tried to marry the two.

Whitney Ramirez (14:50):

And I think we also, our service has went from a month to month, we're going to earn your business kind of service to we know the value of our service and we know it's not the cheapest, and we know that you have so many options, but we know that we are a good fit for enjoy and utilize and will continue to work with us. But I think as a company, we have learned that it can't always be customer first because if you don't invest in your own business, then you don't have one. And so we have to invest in our employees and we have to invest in time spent gaining new customers, and we have to make decisions that might not make our current customers the happiest by implementing a price increase and reworking our service lines to be more competitive with what it actually costs to provide those services. So there's definitely been a shift because we want to protect the business. We're growing just like we want to provide them great service so they can grow too.

Ashlie Marshall (16:26):

Right. Well, it's also something that we have preached for the last two years is if you invest in your team, your team will invest in the company. And we have seen that, right? We've seen that. It's been proven, it's very effective for us to invest in the people in which we entrust to follow through with the services that we provide our clients, and then our clients are in turn happy because the people in our team are working hard to provide the best results that they can. And while that does mean we are in a way customer focused, but we're also people focused, just internal people and investing in them and making sure they have all the tools they need to do their job and that they know we appreciate them, I feel like that's huge. So in terms of making difficult decisions, you have to look at your company and decide, or the company in which you lead. What are your values? What do you want everyone to understand about your company as this is what is most important, these are our goals, this is our mission, these are our values. And if you have that and everybody understands it, then everybody's working to common goal.

(17:51):

And it definitely doesn't make difficult decisions easier, but it definitely gives you a framework to walk through how to make them, which is something that you and I have spent a couple years building, but operationally we've made a lot of decisions. We've promoted people, we've let go of people. We have moved people around. We have had conversations with team members regarding, what do you want to be doing? What are you doing? What do you like? Right? We've had all those conversations.

Whitney Ramirez (18:29):

It's like a big discovery process,

Ashlie Marshall (18:32):

And it doesn't stay the same either. I mean, what one of your team members is doing today, maybe something sparked an interest in them in a completely different area, and they want to explore that. Well, let's have that conversation. What does that look like? How much time can you devote to it? What tools do you need? What do I need to provide you? So on and so forth. And so it's a constant revolving door of conversations leading to ultimate decisions. So some of those can be difficult, I guess, and some of them just based on evidence and history and lessons. In the last, we'll just go one year. In the last one year, what do you recall as being one of your most difficult decisions to work through?

Whitney Ramirez (19:28):

Okay. So in the last year, I would say the first thing that comes to my mind, because it is a big decision that a lot of things have to come after the decision is made, and that's probably going to be investing in the new auto for the shop, because that's a quarter of a million dollars that we're investing because we've reached a limit to our volume with our current equipment. And we are projecting growth to continue pretty crazily. And so the timing and the money and all of the unexpected expenses that came with that purchase, that definitely wasn't a light decision. But it was something that I kept going back to in my head week after week leading up to going to the Printing United Expo that I couldn't get out of my head. So I was like, I know I need to look into this more and understand this better and understand that this is a decision that will directly impact the team and what they can do. But it also puts more responsibility on, I need to make sure this growth continues to where this is a good decision and not a poor decision. So I mean, I think that's going to be something that I consider a big decision in the last year, but you might have a completely different story.

Ashlie Marshall (21:20):

Well, was it a big decision? Yes. Honestly, in terms of that decision, I didn't find that one to be difficult. I knew it was coming. I knew we were going to need to move in that direction, and we had dabbled in that conversation. And for me, I think the most difficult decision that I had to weigh through was not allowing the company to rely on credit.

Whitney Ramirez (22:01):

Yeah, that's a big one.

Ashlie Marshall (22:05):

It was one of the first decisions I made when I stepped into this role because it was honestly, the only way I could see getting the cleaning started is if you cut off, you have to nip the bleeding in the bud. I had to pinch it off because if it kept going, it was going to become much worse. And it was difficult because it was difficult because of outlying factors that I couldn't control. That was why it was difficult. And for me, I just dug my heels in.

(22:54):

I think learning through the course of time, your battles that you pick, and at first when you're learning the ropes, at least for me, when I was still trying to figure out, I knew I was coming into a mess. I didn't know how messy it was going to be. I really didn't know exactly what I was doing or how I was going to do it. But the more I kind of just dove head first, the more I realized I had to dig my feet in on certain battles and made sure that I won them. Because in terms of the way we were choosing to move forward, because if I didn't, there wasn't going to be much of a company left at that point. But I remember being terrified. I remember being petrified that anger was going to ensue and you're fired. Get out of here. I mean, obviously I would've been fine. I would've landed on my feet, but I figured it out. We always do. But that was one of the most difficult decisions that I have been faced with. I think mostly I categorize it as difficult because of how fearful I was that it wasn't going to work.

Whitney Ramirez (24:04):

Yeah. I was thinking back and you were like, what's the decision that you made in the last year? And I was like, I can think of a really big one, but then I'm like, I can't even believe, I didn't even think of that at first, but I didn't. Oh, leaving my marriage.

Ashlie Marshall (24:22):

Oh, okay. Sorry. I didn't know you were going that route.

Whitney Ramirez (24:25):

Huge. No, but I was like, that's a big decision. But it's not even the first thing. I mean, obviously because talking about work, but Yeah. Well,

Ashlie Marshall (24:34):

I think we can include personal decisions as well. I mean, if we're talking about difficult decisions, it's not just in work, but I,

Whitney Ramirez (24:42):

Oh, I know.

Ashlie Marshall (24:43):

In leadership in general. And you know what? Because you went down that road for a split second, I will say that learning how to create a framework that allows you to visualize what are the outcomes, who's affected, what's the best case scenario, what's the least damaging route in work? It has altered the way I make decisions at home

(25:22):

Just with my kids, just in conversations that I have with my five-year-old. Okay. It completely alters the way that I approach everything. So being in a situation where you know that ultimately you are the one with the authority, you are the one that has to say, this is what we're doing moving forward. And then finding out when is the time to include others in that level of authority and when to lean into each other to make decisions. And when that's not possible, when it's just like, you know what, we can't do that. This is what must be done, and we're doing it right no matter what. It pertains to clients, operations, finances, whatever that is, wherever that category lies, where it sits. But I think that a couple of categories of decisions that we have left, which would be leadership and financial. I feel like those are also big topics. We kind of touched a little bit on some of our financial decisions that we made, but there's lots of little ones too. When do you venture down those roads? I don't know. I still don't know. I still feel like most days I'm feeling around in the dark and I don't know what I'm trying to find, but I know I'm reaching for something.

Whitney Ramirez (26:52):

Yeah. Yeah. It's like you realize being in the position that you're in, that you're that it's not going to look the same as anyone else that has the same title as you. And everyone else is truly figuring it out. And there's a lot of very people in high positions that don't know a lot of what we know. And then there's also people that have the same title as us, that have a ton more experience than we do. It's just so different. It's never going to be able to compare yourself to someone else in the same position because it just is always going to look a little bit different no matter how similar your day to day is or how similar your responsibilities are. There's so many factors that go into it that it's easy to compare yourself and be like, well, my title doesn't mean anything. I don't. It does because you're in your role in your company, and there's no need to compare when it comes to that.

Ashlie Marshall (28:12):

Yeah. Well, and I think for you, and we didn't have people to compare our rules to. We had paper, what should a CEO be doing? People will tell me, I dunno, what is it?

Whitney Ramirez (28:26):

I watched the movie Jobs, and I was like, okay, I'm feeling a little bit better. I mean, I look at the paper and then I was watching that movie and I was seeing the new CEO that they brought in, and he had a marketing background, and it was so cool to see that story and how Steve acted as a CEO, and it was really cool to see what that looked like from Apple's beginning to where they were at when he died. But yeah, it's a lot.

Ashlie Marshall (29:07):

Yeah, all of it's a lot. But I think for today, we'll just have to land there. And remember, when you're making difficult decisions for your business, what are your values? Where do you want your company to go? How do you see y'all getting there? And stay true to that. And it will guide you more than you could ever imagine.

Whitney Ramirez (29:35):

And then maybe in the next episode, we can talk about the consequences of not making decisions. A lot of people in high risk roles, sometimes it's easier to be complacent, but that's not always the best thing to do, and you have to push yourself to make decisions even when it's not gone.

Ashlie Marshall (30:04):

Yeah, I think we can definitely talk about consequences. That's a great one. As usual, y'all, thanks for listening to us go back and forth here talking about decisions. If you liked our episode, please leave us a review and share us with a friend. Give us some feedback. Thanks guys. Thanks y'all.

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